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id: dmm-2026-05-18-with-yu
DMM 3回目 (Yu -- 帰国子女、 香港育ち、 international school)
2026-05-18講師: Yu (Japanese 帰国子女, 6-18 in Hong Kong, British curriculum)25 分86 ターン
## このセッションの分析 (2026-05-18)
### スピーカー構造
両者とも日本人。 teacher Yu は帰国子女 (6-18歳を香港、 British curriculum の international school)。
通常の DMM (英語ネイティブ講師 vs 日本人生徒) とは違うダイナミクス。
### Yu の英語の特徴 (returnee tells)
- near-native だが完全ネイティブじゃない
- 文法スリップ: "friends who has gone through similar" (have が正解)
- code-switch 頻発: 帰国子女ですね、駐在員、領域、大胆な、隣の芝生は青い
- 日本語の説明モードに入る癖 (Comment 動詞解説、 English School Foundation の説明)
- フィラーは日本語式 (you know, um, uh)
- でも語彙とイディオム選びは大人英語 (grueling, conservative, ironic 自然に出る)
### user (student) の英語
- 相変わらず broken (restart 多発、 filler 多い)
- でも前2セッションより 「会話に乗ってる」 量が増えた
- 終盤の "Grass is greener on the other fence" は自前で出した insight、 これは確かな進歩
- 「対岸の」 と Japanese を一瞬間違えるが、 「隣の芝生は青い」 で着地
### このセッションの本質: 相互の identity 開示
両者が Japanese-ness の異なる側からお互いを見て、 mutual exposure が起きた:
- user → Yu: "your father did a good job, 羨ましい"
- Yu → user: "ironic, 俺はティーンエイジャーで Japanese education を泣いて欲しがった"
- user → Yu: "grass is greener on the other fence"
この互いの 「持ってないものを羨んでる」 構造の見える化が、 このセッションの core moment。
### compassion レイヤー
ENGAGED は user の指示通り 「苦しみを分かち合う」 を軸に書いた:
- Yu の "Japan doesn't fit" → "you're from somewhere you can't be in" で痛みを受け止める
- Yu の "black sheep" → "Japanese teamで Japanese flavor が違う、 a uniquely uncomfortable spot"
- Yu の teen 涙告白 → "literally opposite sides of the same fence, both staring across"
- 終盤の感謝 → "actual person's story, that's rare"
native は同じ意図のクリーン版、 engaged は 「俺だったら Yu の開示にこう応じる」 という別角度の response。
### 改善ポイント (次回以降)
1. user が 「次回は俺が construction の話する」 と約束。 draft 用意必須
2. session 全体で Yu が話す時間が user の 2-3倍。 free conversation なので OK だが、 speaking 練習目的なら逆比率にしたい
3. user が Yu に 「professional level だった?」 「何歳で香港?」 のような precise question を投げられてるのは前進
4. Yu の Japanese 説明モード (Comment 動詞 etc.) は user が日本語話者と知ってるからこその services。 別 tutor なら出ない便利な情報
5. compassion 軸の engaged は、 単なる修正版より会話の "weight" を保つ。 この方向で次セッションも書く
### 商品ヒント
両者日本人の DMM セッション → 「俺と同じ匂いの人と話す」 体験。 これは英会話学校では成立しない、
DMM の matching の隙間にある面白いフォーマット。 「Japanese-to-Japanese English session」 として
コンテンツ化できる素材。
今表示中のチャンク全部を /english/training に登録。
あとで一覧画面で要らないものを削除する運用。
あとで一覧画面で要らないものを削除する運用。
生徒 43 / 講師 43 ・ NATIVE化 39/43 ・ ENGAGED化 39/43 ・ chunk = 3文ずつ
NATIVE
俺の表現の修正
自然な native 口語 + 一言しゃれた表現。 明日の自分が言えるべきレベル。
ENGAGED
本物の会話の深さ
punchline じゃない。 逆質問・vulnerability・具体的 observation・pushback。 本気で engaged な native conversationalist が同じトピックでどう返すか。
TEACHER
講師の native 表現
講師は本物の native。 各 chunk をそのまま素材として登録 = pure native input。
- #1講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Hello.
- #2生徒 (とにお)Okay, so I believe this is my first time to... meet you. Okay.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Hi -- yeah, I believe this is our first time meeting. Nice to meet you.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Hey -- yeah, first time. Just to set the tone right away: I'm not great at the opening polite stuff, so let's just talk like two humans.
- #3講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3Yes. Yeah. Thank you.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3Yeah. I'm glad. Nice to meet you.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3You chose free conversation, is that... is that correct?
- #4生徒 (とにお)Yes.ネイティブ版未登録
- #5講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay. So shall we start with, uh, introductions and then take it from there?
- #6生徒 (とにお)1/2Yeah, a quick introduction. Sure. Yeah, I, you know, this is the first time, uh, talking each other, so I, yeah, I definitely need, I'm interested in your background, a story, or, you know, quick introduction.2/2Yeah.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Yeah, a quick intro sounds good. Since it's our first time talking, I'd genuinely love to hear your background, your story. A short version is fine.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Yeah, intros work. Honestly though, I'm way more interested in your story than mine -- you're the more interesting half of this call. I'll go first quickly just to get it out of the way, then I want to dig into yours.
- #7講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay. So would you like me to go first or do you want to go first?
- #8生徒 (とにお)1/11Um, I'm gonna go first because, um... but you know, I'm, I, I'm not, how to say, I don't, I don't have anything to like introduce myself that much. Uh-huh.2/11You know, I'm here to speak English and, uh, yeah, trying hard, very hard right now. And, but, um, I paused, I didn't, I haven't, uh, to be honest, this is... you are the third person I, I, I've talked in years.3/11I started DMM Eikaiwa again like three days ago. So this is, you are the third one. Yeah.4/11I actually like, you know, paused like 5 years ago maybe. I, you know, I was on DMM and, uh, did some kind of, yeah, yeah, I did like three or four or five months and, uh, I quit. And five years later, now, I'm trying to pick up again.5/11All the English stuff. I'm not, how to say, I'm not, um, my work environment, nothing to do with English. Just, I'm doing a kind of construction industry, in a construction industry, working the, um, stuff that, you know, how to say, uh, wallpaper.6/11I say, uh, do the wallpaper or the finishing job, finishing touch of, uh, house, you know, stuff. I don't know how to say. But finishing job, uh, do the wallpaper or do the floor, like, the kind of building stuff.7/11So, I'm not, yeah, so, in my daily environment, there's no English at all. Yeah. So, I really, um, but I'm, I'm actually very interested in English.8/11Uh, my, yeah, I'm fascinated by that, you know, especially listening side. I'm not interested in that me speaking fluently or like that, but now I'm here. Uh, I'm enjoying the daily, how to say, I'm watching the, I'm listening the podcasts, English podcasts, or YouTube videos, and that's just, just a hobby, you know.9/11It's not, I'm not like that trying to be, trying to study or, you know, trying to, I'm just listening, enjoying. But speaking side, it's, it's a different matter, right? For Japanese people.10/11It's very difficult. Speaking is like maybe last, yeah, stop, you know. It's just, uh, yeah, we have to, you know, try very hard to acquire that skill.11/11So, so, so why I'm here right now, and, uh, that's my quick, maybe not quick, but introduction. Thank you so much.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/6I'll go first -- honestly though, I don't have much of an introduction. I'm just here to speak English, full stop. And I'm working hard at it right now.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/6Full transparency, you're the third person I've spoken English with in years. I restarted DMM only three days ago. I'd actually done DMM five years ago, for maybe three to five months, and then quit.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 3/6Five years later, here I'm picking it up again. Work-wise, my environment has nothing to do with English -- I'm in the construction industry, doing interior finishing work: wallpaper, flooring, that kind of stuff. So in my daily life, there's zero English.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 4/6But I've always been fascinated by English, especially the listening side. I don't really care about being a fluent speaker. The day-to-day for me is listening -- English podcasts, YouTube videos, just as a hobby.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 5/6It's not studying, it's just enjoying. Speaking, though -- that's a different beast for us Japanese. Speaking is the last skill to come.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 6/6It takes brute effort. So that's why I'm here right now. That's my long-ish introduction, thanks for sitting through it.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/6I'll go first. Honestly, there's not much of an introduction to give. I'm here to speak English, that's the whole story.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/6Working hard at it. Full disclosure -- you're literally the third English speaker I've talked to in years. I restarted DMM three days ago.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 3/6Last time I touched this app was five years ago, did it for a few months, quit. And now I'm back, no clean reason why. Work-wise, zero English in my life -- I do interior finishing in construction.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 4/6Wallpaper, flooring, that kind of thing. So this conversation is statistically the most English I'll speak this week. Here's the thing I want to be clear about: my whole life with English is listening.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 5/6Podcasts, YouTube, daily, for years. It's a hobby, not a study plan. Speaking has always been the part I gave up on, because for Japanese people speaking is the boss level -- everything else comes before it.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 6/6So I'm here trying to do the hard thing on purpose. That's me, sorry for going long.
- #9講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Right, um, so, can I ask you about the podcasts? What kind of podcasts do you listen to?
- #10生徒 (とにお)1/5So, I'm into baseball, you know, many Japanese people do. And, uh, MLB, Major League Baseball, is kind of hot right now in Japan. You know, you have, you heard of Shohei Ohtani.2/5I don't know, you are Japanese, right? I don't, I don't know your background, that's why. But yeah, Japanese.3/5So I'm really, I played, I played, uh, high school, you know, baseball. I was in the baseball club and, uh, yeah, so. And I'm very interested in, uh, following daily, you know, outcomes of MLB.4/5You know, today, you know, Roki Sasaki pitched very well, kind of stuff. Yeah. So that I'm following the, not podcasts, but YouTube videos, about, yeah, there, you know, there are so many, uh, podcasters.5/5Like L- because Los Angeles Dodgers are very big, uh, in the industry, right? So very strong and so, so there are many people, like, broadcasting or podcasting, like amateur, you know, from professional to amateur, right? So, so I, I'm listening one of the amateurs kind of, they talking about daily progression or daily, you know, stuff in baseball, about Dodgers.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/4Mostly baseball. Like a lot of Japanese guys. MLB is having a moment in Japan right now -- you've heard of Shohei Ohtani, right?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/4Actually I don't know your background -- you're Japanese yourself, right? Anyway, I played baseball through high school myself, so I'm pretty deep into it. I follow the daily MLB results obsessively -- like today, Roki Sasaki pitched really well.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 3/4To be precise it's not so much podcasts, it's YouTube. There's a whole cottage industry of MLB content creators, especially around the LA Dodgers, since they're the biggest team right now. The range goes from pros to amateurs.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 4/4I follow one of the amateur guys who breaks down the Dodgers' daily progression.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/4Baseball, mostly. The MLB Japanese-player thing is a national obsession right now -- you know Shohei Ohtani, obviously. By the way -- you're Japanese, right?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/4I assumed because of your name. I played baseball through high school, so I'm not casually interested, I'm actually deep in it. I follow the daily MLB results, what Roki Sasaki did last night, all of that.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 3/4Not strictly podcasts -- mostly YouTube. The LA Dodgers ecosystem has produced this whole layer of independent content creators, pro and amateur. I follow one of the amateur ones, daily Dodgers breakdowns.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 4/4So my English diet is essentially baseball English. Which probably means I can describe a 95-mph slider but couldn't order soup.
- #11講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay. Okay, so I'm writing, uh, my notes, um, on the notes section. Have you...
- #12生徒 (とにお)Oh, thank you.ネイティブ版未登録
- #13講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah, like...
- #14生徒 (とにお)I'm watching actually, yeah.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Yeah, I can see them, actually.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Yeah, I'm watching them update in real time -- it's nice, almost like getting a transcript.
- #15講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Good, good, yeah. So...
- #16生徒 (とにお)So I'm your profile right now.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1I'm looking at your profile right now, actually.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1I'm on your profile right now, actually -- giving the page a scroll while you talk. Hope that's not rude.
- #17講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Yeah, do you want me to, yeah, should I start with my introduction? So「comment」という動詞なんですけれども、これは論評するという意味なんですよね。文脈によって。なので、"there are many people who comments on the professional baseball" という風に言うと、これは、あの、なんだろう、意見とかじゃなくって、論評するっていう風な意味にもなるってことですね。なので、"so I listen to people who comments on the professional baseball" という風に言うと、あのそれは要するに、そのまあ日本語で言う評論家みたいな人たちになるわけですね。うん。Yeah, anyway, um, so, um, yeah, I think, uh, we share a lot in common because, uh, even though I, uh, didn't play baseball, um, I actually played a lot of sports, uh, growing up, and represented my schools and universities, uh, in football, uh, which is soccer in Japan, yeah. So, yeah, so, uh, let me just start with that.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2So my name is Yu, and, uh, yeah, I was really good at playing football. And I remember like...
- #18生徒 (とにお)Are you good at... professional level?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Were you at the professional level?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Hold on -- like, professional-level good? I have to ask, because 'really good at football' from a Japanese guy abroad usually means more than it sounds.
- #19講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Yeah. Yeah, uh, I mean, I remember playing like... no, not professional, but I remember playing, literally or genuinely, um, about six or seven times a week, uh, and I was playing for like three or four different, uh, entities.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2So whether that is, um, like adult...
- #20生徒 (とにお)Kind of like a, how to say, like organization, professional organization, like youth, you know, or belonging to one of the clubs that everybody trying to be, like, professional, trying to be, you know, go into the pro, J-League or...NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1So like organized clubs -- youth academies, the kind of teams where everyone's aiming for the pro level, the J-League track?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1So like, the structured pipeline -- youth academies, the kind of clubs where everyone is quietly aiming for the J-League. Not just kicking a ball around with friends. Real pressure environment.
- #21講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3Yeah. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, so, exactly.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3Uh, so, and I also played for my school. So when you, when you are, if you are really good at something, especially like soccer, um, yeah, like, you really don't, don't have any time to rest. It's just, it's crazy.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3So...
- #22生徒 (とにお)Grueling. Yeah.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Yeah, grueling.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Grueling, yeah. And I imagine you barely had a normal childhood -- when you're good at a sport at that age, the sport becomes the childhood.
- #23講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, none of that. And I also lived in the UK, um, and worked for 8 years in the NGO sector.
- #24生徒 (とにお)1/28 years. Wow. So you are not like, um, grow, grew up in the kind of English environment, or I don't know, yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm, I have no idea what your, so I continue, what's your background?2/2You are like a native speaker, or like not that level, or I'm not sure about everything.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/2Wait, 8 years? Sorry to interrupt -- I genuinely don't know your background yet. Are you a native speaker, or near-native, or something else?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/2I want to understand what I'm working with here.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/3Wait, hold on -- 8 years in the UK plus an NGO career? Sorry to derail, but I have to recalibrate. What's your actual background?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/3Because your English is fluid in a way that's making me suspect you didn't 'learn' it the way I'm trying to learn it now. Native? Near-native?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 3/3Help me out, because I'm sitting here adjusting my whole mental picture of you in real time.
- #25講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Uh, yeah, no, I think so. I, I, you could say that, um, like 帰国子女ですね。帰国子女ですね。So, yeah, so I'm like a returnee. So, uh, for me, um, I, I think I, I have, uh, I think I can, uh, speak in both languages, uh, about the same level.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2Yeah. For both languages. I don't have any, like, um, like I don't feel uncomfortable speaking neither of them.
- #26生徒 (とにお)So you born in Japan and moved to there, where you were born? Japan?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Okay, so you were born in Japan and then moved abroad -- where was that? Were you born in Japan?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Ah, 帰国子女 -- that changes everything. So born in Japan and moved abroad somewhere as a kid? Where was the move?
- #27講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah. So, um, I lived in Hong Kong for a long time.
- #28生徒 (とにお)Hong Kong. When? What age you moved into Hong Kong?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Hong Kong -- nice. What age were you when you moved?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Hong Kong -- okay, that's a specific bubble. What age did you go? Because timing matters a lot for which version of you came out the other side.
- #29講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah, so I was there, uh, from like 6, 6 to 18.
- #30生徒 (とにお)6 to 18. Oh.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/16 to 18. Wow.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/16 to 18 -- so basically your entire formative life. That's not 'lived abroad,' that's 'grew up abroad. ' Completely different category.
- #31講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah. I went to an international school, uh, it had a British curriculum.
- #32生徒 (とにお)British, ah education. Ah. You grew up in, ah okay.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Ah, a British curriculum -- so you basically grew up inside a British education system. Okay, that explains a lot.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Ah -- British education from age 6. So your default English isn't even American, it's British under the hood. That's a totally different shape of English than what most Japanese people get exposed to.
- #33講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah.
- #34生徒 (とにお)1/2Oh, 6 to 18, so that is, you are like, you know, your mindset is kind of like English, not Japanese, right? You know what I mean. It's 6 to 18 is a teenage, kind of like a, you know, uh, yeah, it's very, you know, not...2/2so you didn't go through Japanese typical education.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1So 6 to 18 -- your mindset must be more English than Japanese, right? You know what I mean -- those are exactly the years when your worldview forms. So you skipped the whole Japanese school experience.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2So 6 to 18 -- that means the whole shape of how you think was formed in English. Not just the language. The worldview, the humor, the social rules.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You're basically Japanese on the outside, British-educated kid on the inside. And you skipped the entire Japanese school grinder -- which means you skipped the trauma the rest of us share, but you also didn't get the cultural shorthand. Trade-off.
- #35講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2No, I agree. Um, yeah. Not at all.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2And the thing is, I, I do have, you know, friends who had gone through similar backgrounds, like who has gone through similar, uh, who grew up in a similar way. And none of them, none of them have gone back to Japan because Japan has been too like...
- #36生徒 (とにお)Doesn't fit. It doesn't feel right.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Doesn't fit. It just doesn't feel right for them.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Doesn't fit. It just doesn't feel right. Yeah -- that's actually painful to hear, in a quiet way.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You're from somewhere you can't be in.
- #37講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1It does not feel, does not feel right for us to, to, to be in Japan.
- #38生徒 (とにお)It just didn't fit.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1It just didn't fit.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Yeah -- it just didn't fit. And that's not nothing. That's a real kind of loss, even if it's the kind nobody talks about.
- #39講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/5Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so all of my friends, uh, are living in like London, New York, Hong Kong. And they all have, they all have like non-Japanese wives and husbands.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/5Yeah. So... Yeah.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/5So it's like that. And yeah, so... So yeah, you could say that, um, yeah, you, uh...TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 4/5I often, yeah, I have had a difficult time regarding my identity, uh, and even today I don't really consider, like I don't really think, uh, about people in the realms of, 領域ですね、領域、in the realms of, uh, of like nationalities. So that's not how I think. So I don't really consider myself to be of any nationality.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 5/5Of any nationalities. Yeah.
- #40生徒 (とにお)So in Hong Kong you also can speak, uh, Chinese?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1So in Hong Kong, did you pick up Chinese too?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Not belonging to any nationality -- that's a heavy thing to carry, but it's also kind of free, right? Anyway, side question: did you pick up Chinese while you were there?
- #41講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1No.
- #42生徒 (とにお)No? Just in a bubble, in a bubble. I don't know how to say, but yeah, in a British education, Japanese and British education and, uh, you were in like in a kind of bubble, not, you know, in a Chinese condition when you were in Hong Kong.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1No? So basically a bubble -- inside the British education system, plus Japanese at home, completely insulated from local Hong Kong Chinese life.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Ah -- so you were in a bubble. British school, Japanese at home, no real contact with local Hong Kong life. That's interesting -- you lived in Hong Kong but didn't live in Hong Kong, if that makes sense.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Pure expat ecosystem.
- #43講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/4That's right. Yeah. In a bubble.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/4とてもいい表現ですね。That's right. Um, we I hardly had any interactions with the local people. So, you're right, yeah, absolutely, um, so yeah, like I, I was always hanging out with expats.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/4Expats ていうんですね。Expats. 駐在員ですね。駐在員。駐在員のコミュニティですね。Yeah, you're right. So I didn't really have the chance to develop my Cantonese.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 4/4But some of my friends did. So I don't think that, yeah, it depends on the person. Yeah, exactly.
- #44生徒 (とにお)Wow. Yeah, I'm so intrigued by your background. And, so, you, how to say, um, so, in the school, all English, no Japanese, or like, half half, I'm not, I'm not sure about, you know, what educational style you've been through.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Wow, your background is fascinating. So in school -- was it all English, or did they offer any Japanese? I'm not clear on the exact educational setup you went through.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Your background is genuinely fascinating to me -- I keep wanting to ask more. So one thing I'm not clear on: at school, was it 100% English, or did they offer Japanese on the side? What's the actual setup like at one of these international schools?
- #45講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Um, so in the first school that I went to, um, there was like a, um, a class, Japanese lessons too. Yeah, it was a really good school, so...
- #46生徒 (とにお)So you, you went to China, uh, 6 years, uh, 6, when you were 6, and so I'm, I'm kind of really interested in, you know, can you, uh, please describe, you know, meticulously or, you know, you know, yeah, because I'm very curious about the, yeah. Yeah, yes, not, as long as you can, yeah, describe.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/2Hold on -- you moved at six. I'm genuinely curious to hear this in detail. Could you walk me through it more meticulously?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/2Take your time, however long you need.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Hold up -- moved to Hong Kong at six. I want to hear this in real detail, not the polite quick version. Walk me through it -- the school, the daily life, all of it.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2As much as you can.
- #47講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah. So there was like a Japanese lesson provided by the school, that, by the school. So...
- #48生徒 (とにお)1/2Because no English at all, right? When you move into Japan, move into China. No English background, so scratch, from scratch.2/2You started from scratch.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Because at age six you had no English at all, right? When you moved to Hong Kong, you basically started from scratch.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Because at six you had zero English background. So you were dropped into an English-only school from scratch -- that's a brutal start. Or were you too young for it to even register as brutal?
- #49講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/6Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/6Uh, yeah. So, yeah, so, uh, so I took Japanese lessons as well, uh, because it was like a school for bilinguals. So, so yeah, they, they offered, um, Korean classes for Korean students, Japanese classes for Japanese students.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/6Um, Hong Kong has a, a lot of international schools, as you can imagine. Um, and although majority of them are English School Foundation. English School Foundation ていうのは、is run by British Council.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 4/6British Council ていうのはイギリスの政府の、えっと、教育を、あの、国際的に広げるための、あの、こういった施設、あの、ファウンデーションなんですけれども、その English School Foundation の中でも、there are many good options. So I went to one of those schools. So all my teachers, yeah, were also, um, from Brit-, British, uh, background, I guess.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 5/6But actually no, there were some American or Canadians or Australians too, so I guess that's entirely accurate, accurate. Um... Yeah.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 6/6Uh, that's it. So it's not, it's not a big deal. I mean like, I just meant you're a rich kid.
- #50生徒 (とにお)So like in your household, uh, your, your, your both parents are Japanese?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1So inside your household -- both of your parents are Japanese, right?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Wait -- rich kid is a side note, ignore that. Going to the home side: both your parents are Japanese, right? Because that's the linchpin for whether you kept the Japanese at all.
- #51講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Yeah, my, both my parents are, uh, completely Japanese. They don't speak English. Uh, so that's the reason, that's the only reason why I, I know how to speak Japanese.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2If that makes sense.
- #52生徒 (とにお)1/2Yeah. So in your household, you know, you, you're like, you have to, you had to talk in Japanese. So that's kind of like helped, right?2/2Because many Japanese, many Japanese people, you know, kid, growing up other country can't, forgot their own, you know, mother tongue. Kind of stuff happening all the time.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Yeah, so at home you had no choice but to speak Japanese, and that's probably what saved your Japanese. Because so many Japanese kids who grow up abroad totally lose their mother tongue -- it happens all the time.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Yeah, that's the saving grace then -- you had to speak Japanese at home, no exit. That's actually rare. So many Japanese kids who grow up abroad just lose the language entirely.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2There's whole adult-returnee communities full of people who can't talk to their grandparents. You dodged that bullet because of your parents.
- #53講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Yeah. And also secondly, because there's a big Japanese community in Hong Kong, and as I said, I, I also, um, played for Japanese, uh, football team, uh, outside of the school. Because in, I'm not sure if you know, but in Hong Kong, there is a Japanese school.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2日本人小学校ってあるのです。日本人学校。日本人学校。うん、で、あの、日本人学校 is around, it's just, exactly the same, uh, public school education system in Japan, but they, they, they run on taxpayers money, uh, because they want to provide opportunities for even the expats, yeah, working for big corpo- corporations, who come to Hong Kong to continue their Japanese education.
- #54生徒 (とにお)Oh.ネイティブ版未登録
- #55講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah. So there was like many football teams, uh, run by those, uh, that, that, uh, that a lot of children from Japanese school went, went to. So although I was kind of a black sheep in the, in the, in the team, I was just, I just went to one of those, uh, football teams, uh, and trained with them, um, once or twice a week.
- #56生徒 (とにお)Black sheep. So many Japanese other, you know, other like students are not like you, you know, they're only speaking Japanese, or what's kind of situation? Why you call yourself black sheep?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Black sheep -- what does that mean here? Were the other students all speaking only Japanese? Why do you describe yourself that way?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Black sheep -- that hits. What does that actually mean in this context? Were you the only one not in the Japanese school track?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Because being the outsider on your own ethnic team is a specific kind of lonely.
- #57講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1No, because everyone went to Japanese school, but I was the only one who went to international school.
- #58生徒 (とにお)Oh. Uh-huh.ネイティブ版未登録
- #59講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah. So everyone just went, continued with their, you know, Japanese education in Hong Kong. So they are just like any other Japanese boys you can find.
- #60生徒 (とにお)1/2But, why, but, but, I'm, you know, sorry to interrupt. But you know, you, you guys were young at that time. So I think if I were in the parents, I would put the, my students into the, my, my kids into the international school, not like only like traditional Japanese education.2/2What, what happened? What, what caused that? I don't know why.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/2Sorry to interrupt, but -- those kids were young at that point. If I were a parent in that situation, I'd put my kid in the international school, not the traditional Japanese one. What was actually going on?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/2Why didn't more parents make that choice?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Sorry to jump in, but this confuses me. If I were a parent in Hong Kong with that option in front of me, I'd absolutely put my kid in the international school -- once-in-a-lifetime exposure. Why didn't the other Japanese parents go that route?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Was it money? Was it fear? What was the actual reason?
- #61講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Uh, why did, why did my father decide to put me into international school? Is that your question?
- #62生徒 (とにお)1/2Ah no, no, no. Why, you know, other students, other your, you know, teammates just going, going through the typical Japanese and not into the international? Because of money?2/2Money is financial reason or I don't know.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/2No, no -- the opposite question. Why did the other students, your teammates, stay in the traditional Japanese school instead of going international? Was it financial?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/2Or something else?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1No, the reverse question -- why did the OTHERS stay in the Japanese school? Your father is the outlier I want to understand later, but first I want to understand the default. Was it money, was it fear of being too different, was it pressure from the company?
- #63講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Uh, I have, I have never asked, um, so it's a huge assumption. Um, but I think there are three reasons. Uh, so first reason is, well, typical expats only stay for two, three years.
- #64生徒 (とにお)1/2Ah, yeah, yeah. I got it. Yeah, I got it.2/2Yes, just for a month, so you know, there's no reason to put the international...NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Ah, that makes sense. Just for a few years -- so there's no point breaking them out of the Japanese system if they're going right back.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Ah, of course -- short-term posting. If you're back in two years, you don't want to derail your kid's track. That's actually rational from inside that worldview.
- #65講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2So, so getting a child to, to not, to miss Japanese education for two, three years is a significant disadvantage for the child when they go back. Ah. Ah, especially at the time.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2Um, yep. And secondly, these 駐在員 expats tend to be quite conservative. Right, they don't like taking risks.
- #66生徒 (とにお)1/2Conservative. Really? Is that?2/2It's not, I don't think it's a risk, right? Because it's, I think maybe they are really trying to put their children into the English environment, not Chinese, but English environment, so that they, you know, want their kids to be bilingual, right?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Conservative? Really? I wouldn't have called it a risk myself -- I'd assume they'd be excited to put their kids in an English environment, even if not Chinese, and aim for bilingual outcomes.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Conservative -- really? From my outside view, an international school in Hong Kong looks like an opportunity, not a risk. Wouldn't most parents jump at the chance to raise a bilingual kid?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Maybe I'm romanticizing the position from the outside, but that's how it lands for me.
- #67講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Well, I don't know. Like, maybe that is your, um, opinion... yeah.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2But, for, for somebody like a, an expat at the time, um, sending a child to international school was considered to be a bold, 大胆な、大胆な。
- #68生徒 (とにお)1/2Bold? Bold. Oh.2/2Maybe I guess it's expensive or kind of financial reason involved.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Bold -- huh, okay. Maybe it was the cost too? International schools are expensive.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Bold -- I didn't expect that word. Okay, so it was culturally a big move, not just a school choice. And yeah, the cost piece must've been brutal -- international schools aren't cheap.
- #69講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3And that is, that is, it is very expensive to send a child to Japanese school. So, maybe people who is an expat, they are also a little bit, uh, financially acute, あ、あのすごく頭がいい、経済的に頭がいい人たちだったんですね。So... Yeah.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3But my father, um, you know, he, he ran his own business in, in, in Hong Kong. So, he was a bit of a very strict person. So, yeah, so he had no, like, intention to go back to Japan.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3So, and he even, like, didn't really enjoy the Japanese, he, he himself didn't really enjoy going through the Japanese education. So. So yeah, he was super keen on just like not making sure that I don't have any Japanese education.
- #70生徒 (とにお)1/2Yeah. Yeah, it's, no, it's, it's, you know, you know, way apart from conservative Japanese people, Japanese like children, uh, parents. So you, as they gave you like opportunity or you know, you know, very, very, how to say, I'm, I'm really envious, you know.2/2It's, it's a very good choice, a good decision, you know, your father did.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/2Yeah -- so your father was completely outside the conservative Japanese parent mold. He gave you an opportunity most kids never got. Honestly, I'm a little envious.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/2Your father made a really good call.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Yeah, your father wasn't operating from the same playbook as the other Japanese parents at all. He gave you something most Japanese kids never get a shot at. From the outside, that decision looks heroic.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2I'm a little envious, to be honest. He set you up for a different life.
- #71講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3Oh, wow. Really? You know, it's, it's kind of ironic.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3It's ironic you say that because I grew up with my, uh, when I was a teenager crying, and saying like, why did you, why did you never send me back to Japan, or like, uh. And I, I used to like really complain to my parents all the time about, uh, when I was growing up. Like I was so envious of, like, getting education in Japan.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3Like, when I first went back to Japan, I went to a Japanese school, like, as a guest, as a guest.
- #72生徒 (とにお)As a... so after you, you like, you know, 18, 6 to 18 in Hong Kong in China and now you back to Japan?NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1As a guest -- wait, so after 6-to-18 in Hong Kong, did you eventually come back to Japan?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Oh -- you cried as a teenager wanting Japanese school? That's the part I didn't see coming. We're literally looking at the exact same situation from opposite sides of the fence.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You wanted in, I wanted out. So -- what happened after 18? Did you actually come back to Japan?
- #73講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3No, no. Right now, um, okay, so this is another, I think I have to cut... So, so I have never been an English teacher, uh, until two years ago.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3And two years ago I decided to travel around the world, and there were only a few, few things I could do that I could, uh, like, work outside, outside from Japan. So this, this DMM is a really flexible, like, employer, and yeah, so they, they allow me to, like, work from anywhere. So as long as I have an internet connection.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3So I've been traveling for the last two years, uh, and earning, uh, enough to also, like, yeah, keep my livelihood going. So...
- #74生徒 (とにお)Backpacking, kind of like a seeing the world in your own life.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Backpacking, basically -- seeing the world on your own terms.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1So you turned your life into nomad mode, basically -- using DMM as the income that lets you keep moving. That's a smart hack.
- #75講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Yeah. I wouldn't say backpacking, but every three months I have to move for visa reasons. Yeah.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2So I've been doing that for the last two years. So I've been just moving around all the time and looking at different places in the world. Uh, mainly Southeast Asia right now, but...
- #76生徒 (とにお)1/3Wow. You are, you know, most, you know, for I'm, you know, I think you are like living in the most Japanese like people dream, right? Because they are here to speak English and, uh, want to be like you like travel around the world and speaking English fluently and all that stuff.2/3But it's very, you know, you said ironic because you are kind of like a having like a very, uh, envious of us just typically through the Japanese education and it's kind of, you know, it's, it's yeah. Grass is greener in English proverb, yeah. On the other...3/3Grass is greener on the other fence.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/2Wow -- honestly, you're living the dream most Japanese people are chasing. People come here wanting to speak English fluently and travel the world. But like you said, ironic -- because you were envious of the standard Japanese education we all went through.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/2It's that 'grass is greener on the other side' thing in English.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/3Wow -- here's the wild thing though. You're literally living the dream most Japanese people are quietly chasing. Speak English fluently, work from anywhere, travel the world.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/3People come to DMM trying to climb toward what you already are. And meanwhile, you were envious of OUR side -- the standard Japanese kid grinding through cram schools. We're literally on opposite sides of the same fence, both staring across.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 3/3Grass is greener -- in English they say it that way.
- #77講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3対岸の... なんだ、火が、対岸の... あ違うか、火が、あ私側が日本語おかしい...TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3対岸の火事?じゃあないか、隣の芝生は青い。隣の芝生は青い。Yeah. Um, yeah, no I agree with that. I mean, yeah.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3Now I realize that. Um. But, yeah.
- #78生徒 (とにお)You're very fortunate, you know, your father really did a good job, yeah, I guess.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1You're really fortunate, you know -- your father actually did a great job.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Yeah -- 隣の芝生は青い, exactly. And from my side of the fence, you're really fortunate -- your father made a hard call that most Japanese parents wouldn't have. Even if it cost you something on the identity side, what you got in return is rare.
- #79講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay. Hm. Maybe.
- #80生徒 (とにお)Um, yeah, anyway, um, so yeah. I mean, thank you so much for listening to me. I hope...NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Anyway, thanks for listening to me ramble. I hope --ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Anyway -- thanks for opening up the way you did. I came in expecting a normal lesson and instead I got an actual person's story. That's rare.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2I hope --
- #81講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Yes. Yes, it's about time. And yeah, I'm just, I, I regret I'm, I'm happy to like, kind of set the, uh, you know, maybe we introduce, maybe from my side, I didn't explain myself much, but I heard, you know, I understand what you're going and, uh, your background.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2So next time, um, I'm really how to say, kind of comfortable to talk about myself or just English, you know, we are, I'm here to speak and I'm here to learn English, so. You really, uh, how to say, honest and, uh, explain yourself, you know, very sincerely. So thank you so much.
- #82生徒 (とにお)1/4Uh, okay. No, no problem. Yeah.2/4Um, yeah, no, I think, I would also like to hear about your background too. Um, yes, next time, yeah, maybe yeah, I'll try. Yeah, explain myself in English.3/4Why you are working for construction industry, uh, perhaps maybe what is your future? I'll try. I'll prepare, I'll prepare, yeah, a draft that, you know, that I, I'd like, you know, try speaking in English.4/4Yeah.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/2No problem at all. Yeah, I'd love to hear more from your side next time too. I'll come prepared next round -- I want to explain myself in English: why I ended up in construction, what my future looks like, all of that.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/2I'll prep a draft and try saying it out loud.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2No problem at all -- honestly, I think we got it the right way around. Next time though, I want to flip it. I'll come in with a draft -- in English, prepared in advance -- of my actual answer: why I'm in construction, what my future even looks like at this point, the whole picture.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2And you can grill me on it. That's the deal for next session.
- #83講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah. But anyway, I was really impressed with what little I heard of your English, uh, some of the phrases and words you seem to have a really good vocabulary.
- #84生徒 (とにお)1/2Yeah, I try, you know, I just remembered and I just spit, you know, I just try, you know, saying. I'm not afraid of making mistakes in that on that side, it's okay. Yeah.2/2Small improvement daily.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/1Yeah, I just remember what I can and spit it out. I'm honestly not afraid of mistakes anymore, that part is settled for me. Small improvements, every day.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Thanks -- honestly, my whole strategy is just to spit out whatever surfaces in my head and not flinch at mistakes. That fear is the thing that blocks most Japanese people. I gave it up.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Now I'm just here to make a small improvement every day, no big plan.
- #85講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah, yeah. Okay, ありがとうございました。すいません、なんか話し...
- #86生徒 (とにお)1/2ありがとうございました。Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See you next time.2/2Yes. Bye bye. ありがとうございました。NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 1/2ありがとうございました -- thank you so much, seriously. Yeah, see you next time. Bye, take care.NATIVE俺の表現の修正chunk 2/2ありがとうございました.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2ありがとうございました -- really, thank you. This wasn't a normal lesson, in the best way. See you next time, on my side it's the construction story.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Bye, take care.