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id: dmm-2026-05-22-with-chris
DMM 7回目 (Chris 2回目 -- 自作英語アプリ完全ツアー: トレカ / 7段階フォージ / 録音パイプライン)
2026-05-22講師: Chris (US, Korean-American, lives in Chiang Mai)25 分65 ターン
engaged-only format v2 (全く違う回答 主役 / 長さは中身に合わせる)。 docs/dmm-conversations/_SEED-FORMAT.md 準拠。 Source: docs/dmm-conversations/2026-05-22-with-chris.md
今表示中のチャンク全部を /english/training に登録。
あとで一覧画面で要らないものを削除する運用。
あとで一覧画面で要らないものを削除する運用。
生徒 33 / 講師 32 ・ NATIVE化 0/33 ・ ENGAGED化 30/33 ・ chunk = 3文ずつ
NATIVE
俺の表現の修正
自然な native 口語 + 一言しゃれた表現。 明日の自分が言えるべきレベル。
ENGAGED
本物の会話の深さ
punchline じゃない。 逆質問・vulnerability・具体的 observation・pushback。 本気で engaged な native conversationalist が同じトピックでどう返すか。
TEACHER
講師の native 表現
講師は本物の native。 各 chunk をそのまま素材として登録 = pure native input。
- #1生徒 (とにお)Hi sir.ネイティブ版未登録
- #2講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah, you know, TGIF.
- #3生徒 (とにお)Yeah, heck yeah, TGIF.ネイティブ版未登録
- #4講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1What did you get up today? Did you go to work today or what did you do today?
- #5生徒 (とにお)Yeah, I didn't do anything but uh, I'm... I don't know why but I'm a little bit tired.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Tired without having done anything -- I think that's the realest kind of tired there is. A hard day at work at least hands you a reason to be exhausted. A quiet, empty day just leaves you tired with no receipt to show anybody for it.
- #6講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Didn't do anything but tired. That's the worst combination of words, yeah.
- #7生徒 (とにお)Yeah, no kidding. I totally agree with you. It is a tiring thing.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2No kidding -- and here's the cruel part: a day like that doesn't even recharge you. You'd assume doing nothing equals rest, but it just leaves you flat. Real rest seems to need a little structure.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Pure nothing somehow costs energy instead of giving it back.
- #8講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Um, any interesting words today or expressions, anything?
- #9生徒 (とにお)1/3Yeah, so um, yeah I'm a little bit prepared now today. I will... can I like, you know, present myself...2/3presentation of some, you know, my... because since, you know, this is like, I have a camera here separate from my desktop camera, it's not a desktop camera. So...3/3and uh, can you follow, can you see my condition, my laptop...ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2I asked you for an interesting word, and you've quietly wheeled out an entire production -- a second camera, multiple screens, a whole tour. I love it, but notice what just happened: you came to a speaking lesson with a presentation prepared. That's very you.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Most people show up empty-handed; you showed up with an agenda and a camera crew.
- #10講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1You got four screens going, huh? Wow.
- #11生徒 (とにお)Crazy, crazy condition. Yeah. So my, you know, welcome to my tour.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Four screens, welcome to the tour. And you know what four screens actually tells me? It isn't about productivity.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2One screen is for work. Four screens means you've stopped separating 'work' from 'the rest of life' -- it's all just one big open project now. The desk gave that away before you said a single word.
- #12講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay.
- #13生徒 (とにお)1/2And uh... so then, and so I... I'm gonna back out of the Daily News.2/2Hang on a second, let me close it. Is that okay?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/1Go ahead, close it -- and honestly, good. The Daily News is a safety net, and I don't think we need one tonight. Let's do this without the script.
- #14講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Ah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. I actually, you know, today I'm not interested in the Daily News.
- #15生徒 (とにお)Because, you know, but I remembered, you know, you mentioned like I always, you know, chose free conversation, so I just chose, you know, the this uh Daily conversation, but nothing, you know, interesting to me, nothing you know got my interest. So I decided to just try my different, you know, my English setup or desktop you know computer surrounding tour.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2You tried the Daily News, nothing grabbed you, so you brought your own thing instead -- and I'd pay attention to that. It means no assigned topic can really compete with the project you're actually obsessed with. That's not a problem to fix.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2That's just you telling me what tonight's lesson should be about. So let's follow the obsession.
- #16講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1I see myself too much.
- #17生徒 (とにお)1/2Yeah, yeah, yeah, you do. There you go, yeah, yeah. So I noticed...2/2so last time you shared your screen but student side we can't... I can't maybe...ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2'I see myself too much' -- that's the universal video-call complaint, isn't it. Nobody in human history was ever meant to watch their own face while talking. It's mildly horrifying for everyone.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2The trick I've found is to just cover your own little box with a sticky note. Out of sight, and suddenly you can think again.
- #18講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Can't share. No, no, no.
- #19生徒 (とにお)1/2Yeah, so I noticed. So so I yeah, but I want my... you know, I want you to share my screens, you know, somehow, then so I decided to...2/2And can you like see um...ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Right -- the student can't share a screen, so you're improvising a workaround. And I notice that's a real pattern with you. The platform says no, and instead of accepting it, you immediately start engineering around it.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Most people just shrug. You treat every limitation as a bug waiting to be patched.
- #20講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah I can read it. "Let's keep the self-deprecating charm. " Oh wow, nice.
- #21生徒 (とにお)1/2Yeah it's a GPTs, you know. I have three best friends, you know, in the world. ChatGPT, and uh Gemini, and uh Claude.2/2Claude, you know Claude, right?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2You called three AIs your best friends, and you said it completely casually -- and that's the part that stops me. Not whether it's sad; I don't think it's sad. It's that the sentence didn't even feel strange to you as it left your mouth.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2A year ago that line would have sounded like science fiction. Now it's just your Friday.
- #22講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Claude Anthropic, yeah, Anthropic's Claude, yeah.
- #23生徒 (とにお)You know what?ネイティブ版未登録
- #24講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1By the way, by the way, you can share with me... so there's a link, can't you... can't you pull a link up?
- #25生徒 (とにお)Ah yeah, another link. Yeah. Is that allowed in on DMM?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2You instantly asked 'is that allowed? ' -- and that's such a classroom reflex, checking the rule before doing the thing. I'd gently flip it for you: on a platform like this, most rules aren't really walls, they're just suggestions nobody is enforcing.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2The question isn't 'is it allowed. ' It's 'will anything actually break. ' Usually nothing does.
- #26講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Yeah, so give me your... give me the link for this ChatGPT page, okay? If you paste it in the bottom, and then I will open it here, and then...
- #27生徒 (とにお)1/2I don't know, I don't have... I don't think I use ChatGPT anymore. I got rid of it.2/2Yeah but yeah I know a lot of, you know, share screen website, but is it okay to, you know, teacher side, you know, maybe some kind of regulation or strict...ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2You just dropped 'I don't use ChatGPT anymore, I got rid of it' like you were talking about an old phone case. Think about how fast that happened. These tools that supposedly changed everything -- and you'll cycle through them, keep one, drop one, with zero loyalty.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You're not a fan of any of them. You just use whatever currently works, and that's actually the healthy way to hold them.
- #28講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2No. I have... I share Google, I share Gemini all the time.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2If I get busted, then...
- #29生徒 (とにお)1/2Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next time yeah I will definitely share like in a different way. Yeah, this is like, you know...2/2resolution is not good.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2I like that you said 'if I get busted' so cheerfully, like it's a fun little risk. That right there is the difference between us. You'd rather do the useful thing and apologize later.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2I'm still over here checking whether I'm allowed first. Honestly, I should be taking notes on that, not just on the English.
- #30講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1No worries. Okay.
- #31生徒 (とにお)1/3Yeah, so... let me explain my application. You know...2/3last time I mentioned I'm creating building my own app, English app. And... so this is one of the my English cards, you know...3/3I I I created the English, you know... trading card game kind of thing.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2An English trading card game -- okay, you have my full attention now. And the choice of 'card game' specifically is the interesting part. You didn't build a list, or a quiz, or a textbook.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You built a game with cards you collect. Some part of you decided English would never stick unless it felt like something you'd actually want to own. That instinct might be the smartest thing in the whole app.
- #32講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay, that's cool. Nice.
- #33生徒 (とにお)1/5Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very interesting because I have... I already... how to say...2/55,000 English cards. And each of them... all of them are...3/5you know, I'm like always trying to... I'm trying to develop and uh actual like from from me, from my, you know... I created each of them.4/5It's maybe, you know, the words are a little bit funny, it's why is like... honestly yeah... yeah there's like very elementary stuff going on and uh points...5/5like it's a little bit complicated, so I can't go into this this time.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Five thousand cards, and you made every single one by hand -- that's the number I want to sit on for a second. Five thousand of anything is a museum. People talk about discipline like it's one hard morning; it isn't.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2It's five thousand small, boring, individual decisions to make one more card. That's not a feature of the app -- that's a portrait of you.
- #34講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay.
- #35生徒 (とにお)1/7Yeah, but you know status... I don't know why, you know, English cards... English words has a status.2/7But Pokemon card, I like... yeah I'm simulating trying to imitate the Pokemon card or other like yeah card. And there's a rarity to it actually.3/7So there's like maybe five or six rarities, and uh you can actually uh develop or level up the card you have, I have. And yeah, for example... I don't know why this, you know, the transfer hasn't come through yet.4/7So I can I can develop, I can level up this card. Trying to... click, and next card appeared.5/7So yeah, it's very very complicated. I've, you know, put my effort into this format, so it's impossible for me to explain this my English app for, you know, one English session. But yeah, the concept is like...6/7yeah, that... I want to study English like with fun, you know. Not like actual study, like grinding or like textbook boring stuff.7/7So I created for example...ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Here's what you've actually done, and I don't think you'd phrase it this way yourself. You gave English words a rarity, a level, a status -- and the second a word becomes 'rare,' it stops being homework and turns into loot. Nobody has to force a kid to collect Pokemon -- the collecting is the reward.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2So you didn't make studying fun by adding fun on top of it. You did something sneakier: you disguised the studying as the thing you already wanted to do anyway. That's the whole trick, and it's a good one.
- #36講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1I sound like a creative American. Yeah. Okay.
- #37生徒 (とにお)So this this this is how it works. Uh, because the DMM Eikaiwa, you know... there's a recording, right?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2You said I 'sound like a creative American' -- and I'll take that. But here's the funny part: I'm the least creative-feeling person in my own daily life. Construction by day, completely ordinary.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2The app is just where all the creativity I never get to use anywhere else finally goes. It has to go somewhere.
- #38講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Smart.
- #39生徒 (とにお)1/3You can download it. And download it and put it into the Gemini. Gemini is very good at uh transcribing, you know, the bulk data, it's 25 minutes audio, it's easy for him.2/3Wow, okay. So I just put the, you know, download stuff and uh, you know, transcribe. And boom boom, you know, perfect.3/3Almost almost perfect.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Stop and notice what you just described like it was nothing. Twenty-five minutes of two people talking, turned into clean text, in about a minute. Ten years ago that was a human job -- someone with headphones, an afternoon, and a paycheck.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You just hand it to Gemini between sentences. The miracle isn't that it works. It's that it's already boring to you.
- #40講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Wow.
- #41生徒 (とにお)1/6So you know, your words, my words, everything, you know, transcribed in a minute. And then I put into this into actually I'm using Claude. Claude Claude, yeah.2/6So this is Claude and uh I'm not using terminal, you know, just my using the Claude app and it's easy to... Then I would like say... everything um into, you know...3/6then I created this conversation, like lessons. So honestly I I I said before, I started, you know... this is my seventh time, maybe, this also, you know, recorded and so I will do the same method.4/6And you are the first guy, you know... uh second time. Another guys always, you know...5/6maybe, you know, all of them are wonderful. DMM teachers are always really wonderful. And I will book all of them, but yeah you are the like, you know, seventh...6/6seventh and uh second time.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Here's the part that just landed on me, sitting in this call. This exact conversation -- right now, you and me, this sentence -- is raw material. In an hour it gets downloaded, transcribed, fed to Claude, and turned into a lesson.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2So we're not just having a chat; we're also, at the same time, filming the documentary about the chat. It's only our second time and you've already turned me into content. I'm weirdly honored.
- #42講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Nice. Thanks.
- #43生徒 (とにお)1/8And yeah, so first time, you know, Chris, Korean, yeah... AI did it, you know, I didn't write any of them. Just I suggest I just put I just make AI uh create the uh review, you know, the afterwards review kind of stuff because it's...2/8you have to like review your what's you're saying in that English conversation and uh lesson. So and I don't leave it as as it is or like, you know, because... there's no progression or no growth.3/8You have to listen to your conversation with the teacher, you know, cringe, a lot of cringe, you know, I don't... never used to be my voice, especially, you know, it's this broken English, but that is the only way to actually improve. Don't ignore your...4/8yeah, just face it, kind of style. So I, you know, I created this app and this is kind of like everything recorded and uh... so...5/8can I can I go through a little bit? So that's, you know, last conversation we had. And teacher is you, Chris, and me is Taishi, Taishi, yeah, I'm I'm Taishi, yeah.6/8So I I remember uh the last time we your audio, you know, was off last time. And I can't hear you, can you hear me? Maybe it's perfect English, but I...7/8I make... I try to make AI correct my English and put another expression to it or like native. So this is the result.8/8Can you can you see?ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2You said reviewing the recording is full of cringe, and you just have to face it -- and you're right. But let me hand you a kinder way to read that cringe. You can only cringe at a past version of yourself if the current version has already moved past him.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2If old-you still sounded exactly right, there'd be nothing to wince at. So the cringe isn't evidence that you're bad -- it's the receipt for the distance you've covered. The day the recordings stop making you wince is the day to actually worry.
- #44講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Something... well, dead silence on my end... you there?
- #45生徒 (とにお)1/19Yeah yeah yeah this is... So I said just 'can you hear me? ' But the AI created the like kind of casual form.2/19Another expression: 'Dead silence on my end. ' I don't know if it's like good or bad English, but AI, you know, did a twist to my original one. And also, you know, I'm clearly making mistakes, that that's also corrected in this process.3/19So and you... yeah, my fault, sorry. Is that better?4/19Actually you said that. And... yeah, so I can hear you dead...5/19loud and clear, yeah. Loud and clear. Now we are good.6/19AI's a little bit polished version. So actually I can... if I...7/19I'm I'm not, you know, if it's not cup of tea in this this like AI correction is not cup of tea, I just ignore, I just... but perfect English grammatically maybe. So I can kind of like a reference or learn.8/19But if I'm really interesting, for example, 'loud and clear', maybe uh it's really good collocation, I say. And it's a good English word. So if I want to remember or if I want to uh...9/19'Oh, this is what I say next time. ' I can like put this into the training uh... I can make make this English words into my card.10/19And I I showed before, I put this button and that is... you know, into this section and I can create a new card. And it's already registered in this today's, May 22nd...11/19so already exists in this... I cannot find... okay, yeah so this is my...12/19I think it's meticulous and very syst... for me it's actually working right now. So...13/19and uh really really digging into and uh developing just, you know, kind of a little bit weird, you know, because only, you know, solo vibe coding. So it's only you... you are the director and uh no compromises or no like meetings, you know...14/19only you are the director so I can do whatever I want to this my app. And so that's why I'm doing like this now, and uh... so let me continue.15/19So... yeah, yeah, your your word, actual word... 'Microphone, yeah...16/19I'm watching YouTube, yeah, safe flight... ' you know... yeah, and funny thing, not funny but you are, you know, an English native speaker so I can actually uh register your words into the training.17/19As I actually did, yeah, already did. And uh yeah so your words, your literal, you know, this casual conversation, I can use as my... I can internalize afterwards, if I want to, you know...18/19'Oh, this English teacher's words or phrases is amazing, you know, I want to uh yeah say exactly what he's saying. ' So I can, for example, put this button. So this word is into the cards, you know, actual...19/19I can later... later... tomorrow I'll review this words.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Let me say what I think the real engine of this is, because it isn't the AI correction. The AI gives me English that's correct; you give me English that's real -- 'safe flight,' 'loud and clear,' the throwaway stuff you don't even notice yourself saying. Those are the cards I actually want.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2So in a strange way, the most valuable thing in this lesson isn't your teaching -- it's your accidents. The phrases you'd never think to teach me on purpose are exactly the ones I'm quietly stealing.
- #46講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3I have a question, I have a question. Um, I like the setup, I think it's pretty involved and you really... it helps you remain motivated and passionate about learning English.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3I wanted to ask you a question concerning the... the upgrading or the forging of your card. How...TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3how does that work? You know, out of curiosity.
- #47生徒 (とにお)1/11Yeah, it's it's it's very... Thank you for asking. And it's very complicated.2/11Not complicated, but it's there... um... it's very difficult to explain in English, but I'll say there are seven grades, seven development stages each card can get.3/11And now I, you know, for example, now right now I, you know, registered one of your words into the card, right? Right now, yeah. And that is level one, for example.4/11This is like, can you can you see? The level one... level, level, there's a level to the uh each of cards and you can develop by...5/11in an according way of I developed... And how do I explain this? So if I...6/11uh, let me check. There is a like... there is an explanation or um...7/11how to say, the user's manual. Only me using this app but there is kind of user manual exists somehow. And yeah...8/11and uh it's in Japanese so I have to, you know, translate, that's English good English practice. So... so see is a level one.9/11Every card I registered into this app starts starts as a level one, red seed card. So you are just registered, so and you don't have any repetition or reps, so this is like a starting point. And yeah actually yeah there's a like seed, spark, forge, hone, voice, vision, start.10/11This is like development stage. Seven grades. And so next level, level two is spark.11/11Actually it's... seed to spark to forge to hone is just you just tap, tap the card, listen the cards you registered and just develop automatically.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Seven stages for a single word -- that could sound completely insane, but the naming is doing something clever. Seed, spark, forge, hone -- those aren't database fields, they're a story. Most review systems just say 'level three of seven,' which means nothing to anybody.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You gave each step a name with a feeling attached, so a word doesn't 'reach level four' -- it gets forged. You turned a progress bar into a small mythology, and your brain will absolutely work harder for a mythology than for a number.
- #48講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay.
- #49生徒 (とにお)1/3For example, this is a level two card for me right now. So I tapped this card once. 'Just stacking paper', he's he's got there three different income streams, I don't know...2/3context is not matter right now. So if I want... yeah and I say, 'Okay', I recite, and I recited, and 'Yeah, a little bit, you know, I can understand what they're saying and maybe I will okay I go go to the next level'.3/3So I put. So the level three. Like just tap, listening, and you can consider is it okay to level up to the next level, I can check.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2There's one detail in there I want to point straight at: you decide for yourself when a card is ready to level up. The app doesn't test you -- it trusts you. That's quietly the riskiest design choice in the whole thing, because it would be so easy to lie to yourself and level everything up.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2So the app only works if you stay honest with you. You didn't just build a study tool. You built something that only functions if you have integrity -- which is a strange and kind of beautiful thing to depend on.
- #50講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1So when you level it up, does it change the card or is it just... what does leveling up do to a card? Or what does leveling up mean ultimately for your language learning?
- #51生徒 (とにお)1/16Yeah it's it's... oh it's really difficult to explain. Take your time, take your time, it's really cool.2/16Thank you for sharing with... don't worry, it's really cool. So maybe it's, you know, I'm not good at explaining actually in Japanese also.3/16In Japanese, you know, I'm not good at presenting or... So but yeah I know what you are saying, what you are like asking me, and I can perfectly answer with AI, you know... if AI, you know, made AI answer it's easy, but yeah I'm, you know, trying to speak, so let me bear with me.4/16So yeah, there's a like... so this card already has a level, level three, right? And you can check, you know, this is level three, and if I put this button it levels up.5/16Level four, forge. So there is a... and uh this tapping process is is working until level four.6/16After level four there's another method. For example, now I have a maybe yeah I have a like 593 level four cards. I just tapped three times, you know...7/16once you one tap... three taps to the level four from the level one. Right?8/16One, two, three, level four. So level four... and uh you have to have to rec...9/16rec... you know, you have to record your voice. And actually I have like a database database...10/16data... Cloudflare, some kind of like database. I had, you know, I paid like five or six bucks and I can record, I can actually record or store my voices.11/16And for example, say I've been stacking up points actually. Okay, I want to level up I want to level up this card to next level, voice. You actually voice, you have to make a voice about this.12/16So I put this button and 'I've been stacking up points actually. ' And now I'm using the voice, actually right now recording. And stop button and level up.13/16And your voice is recorded. And I can check this. I can check...14/16You can't hear right now, but I can hear the... this is now, you know, actually recorded and I can this I listened right now and you can't hear it because I'm, you know, you can't hear my mic, so... So this is a level up five.15/16And level six, yeah little bit... this is wrong. It's really interesting.16/16I'm checking out. 'I'm in the wind, you'll find me'...ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2You said something I really don't want to slide past: 'I could perfectly answer this with AI, but I'm trying to speak, so bear with me. ' Stop and look at that choice. The perfect answer was sitting right there, one copy-paste away, and you turned it down to struggle through it out loud instead.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2That is the entire game, right there in one sentence. Anyone can have the perfect answer now; almost nobody chooses the worse, harder, slower version on purpose. The struggling isn't a weakness in your method -- the struggling is the method.
- #52講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Okay.
- #53生徒 (とにお)Yeah, I can yeah... many ways to develop this word into next level, but yeah...ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Many paths up, yeah -- and I think that variety is doing more work than you realize. The same word gets climbed by tapping, then by reciting, then by recording your voice. You're not reviewing the word five times.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You're meeting it from five different directions, so it can't hide from any one of them.
- #54講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/4I have... I have another question. So I like...TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/4I like the features. It keeps you engaged, it keeps you wanting to level up and bring these... How has this process improved your English?TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/4I mean, I'm sure it has. So how has it improved it? How much...TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 4/4how many of these... you said you have 5000 plus sentences... how many of them are automatic and how often can you recall them when you need them?
- #55生徒 (とにお)1/4So my ideal goal is if you like level up to the max, you know, final level, I'll call this start, because uh weeks ago I... this was not named start, it's named crown, like a jewel kind of like ultimate goal. But I thought it was weird, you know, you have to you have to level up and touch and say or out loud and again and again, and oh last...2/4and you are top top level finally. But this is the start. So I want to each of my cards into the actual usable very internalized phrase.3/4So that's why there's a like seven steps to the start. Start meaning I can actually internalize and like say in a native level. That's my ideal goal or I'm aiming for.4/4So that's why there are levels and there's each level has a different like test or way to internalize that phrase.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Renaming the final level from 'crown' to 'start' might be the smartest decision in the entire app, and I want to make sure you see how big it is. A crown says: you're done, the word is won, put it on a shelf. But a fully internalized word isn't finished -- that's exactly when it becomes useful, when it's finally ready to be lived in.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2So 'start' is correct and 'crown' was a quiet lie. Most learning apps hand you a trophy and imply the journey is over; yours says the opposite -- the word is yours now, so go and use it. You renamed the finish line into a door.
- #56講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/2Okay. Alright. So internalization, memorization is the key goal for this system, is what you're saying?TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/2Okay. And you feel that you've internal...
- #57生徒 (とにお)Yes. So that like I can naturally say without thinking about anything, just like native speakers do. Yeah.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2'Without thinking' is the goal, yes -- but let me refine it slightly, because natives are thinking too. We're just not thinking about the English. The grammar runs in the basement, automatically, and all of our attention is upstairs on the actual idea.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2So you're not aiming for an empty head. You're aiming to move the English down to the basement, so your attention is finally free to be about something real. Fluency isn't no thought -- it's thought, relocated.
- #58講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3Okay. Um... how...TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3when was the last time that you spit out a whole phrase, right? I just read one of your cards, it said 'Just spit it out', right? You read that one, right?TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3When was the last time you used that phrase? Or how do you know when... how do you know when to use that?
- #59生徒 (とにお)1/2Oh, every time, you know, since I started DMM, just naturally came out, some words naturally came out of my mouth like native speakers does. So yeah it's I think it's kind of working right now and uh yeah it's just repetition and uh eventually stick to your head. And without realizing, one of these phrases I'm now using is also I acquired from this application, from my app.2/2So I can't I can tell which one is, you know, it's almost like so stuck and uh so fused or how to say, welded on, I don't say the English words, yeah. So yeah, I think it's, you know, for me actually working and I'm trying to be yeah yeah continue to yeah write this...ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2You said the phrases are so fused in now that you can't even tell which ones came from the app -- and I'd argue that's not a fuzzy memory, that's the finish line. While you can still remember 'I learned this from card number 2,300,' the phrase is still a guest in your head. The moment you lose the receipt -- when you genuinely can't tell if a phrase is 'yours' or 'learned' -- that's when it actually became yours.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Forgetting where a word came from is the proof that it finally belongs to you.
- #60講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3I think... I think it's fantastic. I struggle...TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3I'm telling you my struggles because I struggle with trying to reproduce, you know, recall automatically. There are some good... I have a bunch of phrases like you do in Thai in my head.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3But some... develop it more, put it on the market, you know, I'll I'll beta test it, okay?
- #61生徒 (とにお)You are like pre-guest beta tester, you know.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2A beta tester -- you might genuinely be the first person other than me to ever touch this thing. Last time I told a teacher the app's whole problem was that it has exactly one user: me. And now you've just volunteered to be user number two.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2That's a bigger moment than it sounds. The day a second person uses it, it stops being my private diary and starts being an actual product. You may have just promoted it.
- #62講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/3Beta tester, yeah. I think it's a wonderful thing that you're doing, I really do. I think that it's a good, you know, you're passionate and it helps you.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 2/3I struggle with flashcards myself. Because I learn some stuff, but it's not... the flashcards are boring.TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 3/3Yours is a little bit more interesting, yeah.
- #63生徒 (とにお)Yeah, whole my concept is just making studying English fun, you know, not boring. So I making some you know weird gimmicks to it, and uh actually like there are slots or pachinko kind of thing going on in my app. Maybe next time I talk about it.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2A slot machine inside an English app -- you say 'gimmick,' but I think you've quietly understood something most educators won't admit out loud. Studying is boring. That's not a flaw in the learner, it's just true.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2Instead of pretending otherwise, you smuggled in the exact machinery casinos use to keep people in a chair for six hours, and you pointed it at something good. Tell me about the pachinko next time -- that's not a footnote, that might be the most honest feature you've got.
- #64講師TEACHER講師の native 表現chunk 1/1Cheers. Bye bye.
- #65生徒 (とにお)Thank you so much.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 1/2Thank you, Chris -- and now the strange part begins. This whole conversation goes into the machine tonight, and a few of your throwaway phrases become cards I'll be reciting next week. So in a way you don't really leave when you hang up.ENGAGED本物の会話の深さchunk 2/2You just move into the app. See you there -- and see you next time.